Matty O'Shea:

Jordan used to win games like these - I fell for the Kobe trap today

Yes he did.... if Kobe wouldn't have gone 1-10 from 3 point land, Lakers would've won this game

Whhooohhh...I only disagree in ONE key area here....

When your BACK goes out, and you attempt to play through it....it's very, very problematic

PLUS, Lakers ball movement and comeback/resiliency was pretty impressive - albeit, in losing effort....much of it keyed by Kobe's ball movement skills and his court awareness.

Seeing him at the line and between plays his back is very screwed up....I know, no excuses if he was on the court, and I agree that his 10% from 3-range is piss-poor.

I have a severe back issue, and was disabled for over a year with it...maybe I'm just ultra sensitive to this issue....but I'll tell you - you can think it won't effect your shooting rhythm, but the fluidity of the shot is broken slightly with back problem....

Just my two cents.

Kobe is awesome....as Jordan was.  Kobe is an assassin - watching him up close a few times made me a believer in that dude's unique ability to win games in the way Jordan could - and he and Jordan and a few select others had an ability to pull off anything and everything to get his team in the 'W' Column.

I used to think that Kobe wasn't quite there - then I watched him do some things in the Rose Garden that I couldn't put into words....degrees of difficulty on shots and moves that just left me speachless....too amazed to be pissed, really.

The WORST beat by any favorite team of mine in person  - EVER - came at the hands of Kobe's Lakers on 5/19/00....WC Finals, Series tied 1-1, Blazers led out of the gate 15-2, by 11 with 3:03 to play, ect, ect  Kobe kept refusing to accept defeat, then Harper Broke a tie game with a wide open, baseline J with a few ticks left....everyone remembers the 15 pt 4th Qtr lead in LA of Gm 7 of that series, but Game 3 was turning point, IMO.  So I'm not a Kobe / Laker FAN - and I dread seeing him and those damn Purple unis up here....

I saw Jordan's and his Bulls up close, too....as they beat down The Clyde / TP / Buck / Jerome Kersey, ect., Portland team , 2 of 3 in Coliseum in 1992 - and that was dominating also....and Jordan's Role was incredible, too....even MJ's 15 Point, poor-shooting performance in Game 4 - when he made some stellar plays and two key steals down the stretch to give Bulls the win....  

Comparing players of that caliber - of different eras is so dang difficult - I do it all the time, too....I could never say one of those players is any 'better' than the other -

If they played 1 on 1 in their prime.....Seven Game series...you'd have an IMPOSSIBLE time capping it! 

Game 7 would probably be they'd be a 4 OT Thriller....and may never end!

I'm not saying your wrong, either!

Kobe and Jordan have an intangible, distinguishable quality; that phenomenal, head-strong drive to win every game.....that hard-headed quality is probably what kept him in the game today....and what kept MJ in the Utah 'Flu' Game, ect.

I just think there are so many intangibles here - it's a reach to say there is any real separation between Kobe and MJ....IN MY OPINION

Jordan never used excuses except when he was out with a broken foot.

Remember the flu game?  That was in the same building 11 years ago - he won.

I get your point Steve, just venting. The point is, nobody will ever be Jordan again.

And I'm still waiting for Kobe to win a big playoff game that means something on his own...

Again - No Excuses....Kobe didn't make excuses, though they were made on his behalf

BTW - I've seen KOBE WIN TOO FREAKING MANY Playoff Games, almost ALL on his own....they are etched into my brain with a branding iron.

But, GAME WINNERS?  I guess it depends on what that REALLY means.  Maybe Kobe hasn't had that SIGNATURE, Gm 6 in SLC 98 Finals-type shot (& MJ's itty-bitty, vet push-off/shake-off of Russell - THE most impressive / awesome part of that shot - IMO - and Utah's preponderance to leave MJ alone....ect)

I think MJ HAD to do that on many occasions, so he did it.... to his credit!

Kobe had Shaq....MJ had Pip, Rodman, etc

DON'T FORGET....this may seem small, but it's HUGE to someone who has even tried to COACH when they DO NOT allow Zones....the ILLEGAL 'D' Rules back then allowed for more Iso's - and potential game-winner clear-outs, ect...HONESTLY....

Like I was saying, The Critics were all over Jordan in 1992 Finals, (Here in Portland, even), after he shot in the 20%'s in Game 2 and had 15 pts in Gm 4, (92 Finals), and I vehemently defended him then, too!  All the shit about his late night trips to the Taj', i.e., 'carelessness' of his approach, ect...it was BS!

Jordan had great games, Kobe has had great games...

TO THE POINT:  It's hard for ME to say Michael Jordan is 'better' than Kobe Bryant based on this ONE game.

I have also been remarkably impressed by Kobe's adaptability to this team, this system, and LAL's schemes - and I give him much deserved credit for his adaptability this year.

NOW - LASTLY -

• I've had a severe back issue.   
• I've had the Flu

I MUST say - and this is risky territory, but in ALL HONESTY:

• I COULD play with the Flu....IT WOULD ABSOLUTELY SUCK, but it's hard to say how bad that is from a medical standpoint, but you can still bend, arch, release, etc - shooting motion isn't effected.
• I COULD NOT EVEN ATTEMPT to PLAY when my Back is Out...IMPOSSIBLE.....it'd be absolutely impossible. 

I LOVE MJ!  He has twice the rings that Kobe does!  They both do/did what they needed to get wins.

WE CAN NEVER GET INTO THESE GUYS BODIES TO SEE HOW SHITTY THEY FELT....Watching this MJ "FLU" Game again - as it grows in legend with each passing year....as does Zeke's Sprained ankle game, Willis Reed, ect....hard to gage these things! 

Kobe STANDING for his interviews was a roundabout excuse, just now too....even though I'VE had those days....I was unable to sit or bend over for almost a year....several surgeries and 3x wk therapy still have those days!  Not an excuse - but not an accident either! 

You got me Steve - I simply don't remember those playoff games you speak of.  I remember Shaq dominating the Nets and everybody else en route to 3 straight titles.  I'm sure Kobe had some good games in there, but I don't remember.

I do remember Kobe choking against the Suns in Game 7 a couple years ago.  That's one game that stands out more than any other in my memory.

And then there's this one today  

The next few will be bigger than any others he has played without Shaq, so we'll see what happens...

 Damn Matty, your holding Kobe Bryant up against the standard my man. Tough, tough spot to be in. He is an incredible player and headed to the Hall of Fame but nobody is Jordan, not yet anyway.

The media has held him to that standard since he entered the NBA.  He didn't ask for it and doesn't deserve it, so hopefully the comparisons will end.

I've been very strongly against those comparisons, and unforuntately I fell for the trap today.  That's all I was saying, and the main reason I started this thread... 

How dumb were the lakers to repeatedly pass the ball to kobe in situations where he was forced to create a shot for himself? he was clearly struggling with the pain and lacked elevation, yet his teammates didn't move enough to create easy baskets. gotta wonder what the lakers were thinking.

 also gotta wonder why utah was taking shots with 15-20 seconds on the clock when they were up 8...