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VEGAS-RUNNER has moved "Steam" for almost every major betting syndicate through the years and was a well known "runner" in Las Vegas for many years before taking all that experience and knowledge and eventually began moving his own...

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The Dilemma of Doing This for Real...

by vegas-runner on 06/30/2008 10:51 AM

Saturday night, I was faced with that very dilemma, and I believe that all professional sports handicappers who share their work with others have been forced to deal with the very same thing. First let me say that one of the main reasons that I decided Pregame was definately the site that I would take on this venture is the fact that I knew the cappers on here actually do bet their plays and I would go as far as saying that the majority depend on those plays, just like I do...to actually provide a profit as a means to make a living. That was extremely important to me because my initial thought for becoming a Pro-Capper was to simply pass along the exact same bets that I am making which have provided me a very good living, and in the process, try to explain through examples and posts just like this one...the way that the average bettor can implement my information and approach into their own business and be able to turn a profit also.

At first, my worry was that the average sports bettor had been so pre-programmed to certain mis-conceptions that attempting to ask them to begin betting exactly like the "wiseguys" do would be a very difficult task. But eventually, I realized that today's sports bettors are just so much sharper than they were years ago and their ability to comprehend what winning information actually was made me excited because I knew I could bring that to them. And as the first few months went by, I really began to learn so much about this business and the best way I can mold it to help bettors profit more. Along the way, I explained what our goal was and the way we were going to reach it and I knew that if I can continue stressing that money management is the only thing that can stop you from profiting with this information.

So what I decided to do to start the new year, was to really put the focus on wagering correctly since I knew that we would provide more winners than losers...which ultimately should be enough to provide a profit for the consumer. And that meant that each day when I formed and confirmed my card, I would also make sure that I considered the amount of units I am asking us to put into play...and base that on our balance for the week, month, and year. And to do that, I also wanted to make sure that I post a balance update almost daily which would show exactly what following this blue-print could provide.

That to me became the most important aspect for a pro-capper...until that time, I also was pre-programmed to think that this industry is only about records. And I felt that since I was a professional sports bettor, first and foremost...then what needs to be most important to my consumers is my overall profit/loss...and not neccessarily my record. Although we are forced to post and market our current successes as pro-cappers in the form of records...for example 7-1 L/8 100*s...or 5-0 on Tuesday's...I have tried to instead get my "Bottom Line" to the consumer...and there lies the dilemma.

What many bettors fail to understand is that what should be the most important factor in determining winning information...is not the record of the capper, but instead their Overall Results of Units won/loss...and NOTHING ELSE...now I know from being in this business that it may not be the best way to get sales...and that is because bettors are hoping for something that doesn't exist...a LOCK..but when they see something that reads 10-0...well, that is enough to toss reason out the window at times...when the real response needs to be.."What about before those 10 plays"...Because I hope like myself, many of you are also doing this "FOR REAL".

The dilemma I am speaking about comes up daily when you do this for real...the reason for that is because you can't simply chalk up a loss as nothing more than a small adjustment of a record...instead, a loss is "REAL MONEY" and as a responsible pro-capper, who has an obligation to their clients...it needs to be accounted for a such. It becomes very easy to make a -220 a 10* Selection, since if it loses...a 6-2 record on 10*s, simply becomes 6-3...still extremely marketable the next time around...

But when you actually bet on your plays...and are basing success and failure on REAL Profit or Loss...then it isn't as simple to make a -220 a 10* Release...And that is the dilemma I faced on Saturday....I had done my capping and saw Detroit was -160...and the work I did on that game, along with the confirmations that I was able to get...made Detroit the strongest MLB play that I had seen in IL action this year...but since I post late, when the time came to Upload the play, the line had moved to -175 and at that number...I was hesitant to lay 5units on it. The main reason was because of our account balance for June, which didn't justify making that kind of wager. So my dilemma was...do I simply switch plays and make the Brewers my 5* and Detroit my 3* instead. But then I would be bullshitting my clients and giving them confidence that I didn't even have...and that is just something that I can't do to my guys. So, that left me with either decreasing the units or canceling the 5* completely...or not applying the money managment that I urge my clients to always do. Finally, I went back in and dug some more and came to the conclusion that we would not lose any value and actually gain, if I was willing to make it a RL bet...but as many know...Jones blew his "1st" Save of 2008, with a 3run lead and 1out in the 9th...and Detroit went on to win by only "1" run...

Now the reason we lost that bet sadly enough, is because I tried to do right by my clients. Its strange when  you put it that way, but that is the exact reason why I didn't send it out as a ML bet. And sure, it would have won and everyone would have been happy...but a huge diservice would have been done also. I have always believed that if you are willing to ask people to pay for information that you claim is valuable...well then you need to prove that value first. And the only way to do that is to show an actual account balance for the information that was released.

This is a dilemma that I will have to deal with again in the future...and each time, I am learning more and more ways that I can try and make it a positive instead. But I am also aware that because I do this for REAL...these are decisions that need to be made and my ability to do so will untimately decide success and failure. Sure it would be much less stressful for me if I didn't keep an account balance...and many of the decisions that I make between now and Dec 31st may well be different because of it. But if I did that, then how can I say with certainty that my information is valuable...and how can I expect others to be willing to follow me, if I wasn't willing to show them my actual results...and not just the pretty ones which make me look good.

You see, I wouldn't trade doing it this way for anything...and although I know for fact that sales would be much higher otherwise, I also know that by doing it for "Real", that I will end up with the type of clients who understand the game and know that there will be tough times and good times along the way...but they also know that the numbers they are looking at are "Real" and they can know for certain whether or not following it has provided a profit. I have seen more and more clients come in and give me props for doing this. They seem to really appreciate the fact that I am willing to show my wins and losses...and what following along, with the exact blue-print will have produced in terms of profit/loss. I am so thankful that more and more people who are new to betting have grown up in a generation that prefers to hear the truth, rather than what they wish. And its also nice to see guys who have been in this racket for even longer than I have are begining to demand more from those selling info.

The only thing that I ask, is that you try and understand that the person who is passing along this information, and is also betting on it for "Real" has a huge responsibility because by being willing to show the actual results...there is a lot of pressure to perform and just knowing that your success and failure as a pro-capper will be based almost entirely on those results is a lot to have to deal with. But in the end, it is also our responsibility...because if we claim to have winning info...then you deserve to know how much we won. And when we look at that question...the only answer you should be concerned about...is the Dollar Amount, because a record don't say much.

In closing, I would just like to thank all of the guys who have come into my posts and have let me know how much they appreciate the fact that I do post actual dollar results for them. I also want to let you know that as we go forward, just like you continue to learn from me, I also am learning how to better assist you in managing your money, based on my info. With more and more bettors demanding results be mandatory, I believe that more and more cappers will be forced to also show they can "Do this for Real" and actually make money...before they have the nerve to ask for yours...best of luck, VR.


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8 Comments:

 

posted by rmarquez33 on 07/01/2008 11:31 AM

This is a great piece!  Thanks for sharing VR.  I can see your point and am glad you stand by it firmly.  Here's to a profitable 6 months.  Good Luck!!!

 

posted by Tommy Rider on 07/01/2008 12:53 PM

VR, I look forward to bending your ear about the business when I get out to Vegas. I think the problem pro bettors like yourself have is the negative stereotype the industry has gotten over the years. Like you, I bet all of my plays personally. And when a play losses, I'm not just mad and upset for what I lost, but also because I know people listened to my advice and lost money as well. I'm sure some people will think this is a sales ploy but like you, the reason I'm joining Pregame is because RJ and everyone are putting into place a long term plan for gambling success. Pregame isn't a fast food-type of place where cappers give out plays and then push you aside. You and many others spend countless hours on the message boards, not just attempting to sell picks but interacting with people trying to learn the gambling business. I think that's important. Hey, we all need a job and we all need to make money but I've talked with people like Matty and King Maker after they lose a game and they are sick to their stomach. If they just cared about the money, they wouldn't take one loss so personally. One loss is not going to make or break any capper. Good luck.

 

posted by Matty O'Shea on 07/01/2008 1:33 PM

Great points all around guys - this is why we need to have a handicapping conference at some point.  That would enable everybody to realize we are real people who ride the betting roller coasters along with you.

 

posted by GoodFella on 07/01/2008 4:52 PM

Awesome piece here, thanks again!!

 

posted by Gballard on 07/01/2008 5:25 PM

Ace I am just curious did you also play the Detroit game on the RL when you put your wager in or did you already have it on the money line?  I know you feel a major responsibility for your clients account balances but you are a proven winner and if some of your clients cant understand that there will be weeks and months that you will lose then they probably dont need to be gambling in the first place.  Also at this point in the season we are still sitting on a very nice profit so in the future dont be scared to fire away on your first instinct because ultimitely each one of us is responsible for our own wager amounts and bankrolls.  In my opinion money management is the hardest part of this racket and great money management is how we have built our bankrolls.   If not for me getting a big head and increasing my wager amount during the month of June by a significant amount then I also would be ahead alot more than I am but I made that desicion you didn't force me into that which cost me in the end.  Bottom line what I am saying is do what you know and have done for years, release the plays that you have the most confidence in whether its a pick'em or we are laying -200 and dont worry about us cause I may be wrong but I am willing to bet most all of your clients are gonna be pretty sharp guys who dont have a problem laying some major chalk to get a winner.  Just like you have said before if there is enough value in a play then we take it no matter what the price is.  Just my thoughts.  Thanks again for your hard work!!

 

posted by harpco on 07/01/2008 8:22 PM

THANK YOU ! GOOD LUCK !

 

posted by vegas-runner on 07/02/2008 10:58 AM

Thanks Guys, and GBallard I am so glad that you took the time to post that response because I know that you have been with me from the start and we even got a chance to meet up, which assured me that I am working with someone who truely understands our approach and will no doubt be able to profit with me in this venture...

Now to answer your question, I went ahead and played the RL for the fund that me and a group of investors began a long time ago...and for my own personal account, I actually went ahead and did the same thing because I really felt that just so much pointed to a Tigers win and with the Total where it was and the work I did on the % of 1run games for both teams and pitchers...justified the RL wager...and more importantly, it was one of those instances where when I go back to try and learn from it...the truth is, we were on the right side...but it was the wager type that got us...

My job as a pro-capper is to take that experience and try to learn from it for future wagers..

Now you made a great point and I try to do this as much as possible...when I really like a play, I try not to let the price scare me from passing it along to my clients...Many times I will admit that I do hesitate for that reason, but more times than not, I trust myself enough to go with what I believe to be the right move...and win or lose, I know that since its the exact same thing that I would have done even if I never decided to share my work...so I find comfort in knowing that I have done right by you guys, even though the results may not support that...

In the end, I am thankful that most of the members here on Pregame are well versed enough to know that this is such a difficult market to show a long term profit in...and because of that, I feel confident that if I pass along a -200...my guys know that it was extremely thought out...

I had never realized how difficult it is to do this as a profession because every result is magnified due to the fact so many loyal clients are along for the ride as well...but I also try to never lose sight of the fact that I AM A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS BETTOR who has had a lot of success turning a profit via this market...and I have come to realize that although my clients also hope to gain knowledge and experience along the way...they also are my clients because they trust that I will be able to deliver that same success as a pro-capper...and therefore, I always make sure that I think and act like a "sharp" bettor first, knowing that good things will then surely follow...and with 6months in the bag for '08...I would say we are right on schedule to have another Winning Year...

Best of Luck and Thanks again, VR

 

posted by BleedGreen on 07/02/2008 1:10 PM

just a question given the outcome of the detroit game saturday night....if the situation presents itself again as I'm sure it will, will you change anything in your presentation, capping or advertising and possibly make that game a ML bet? or would you do it again hoping to win by 2 knowing that a 1 run win would mean you had the right team but still lost $? Just a question that could go either way?

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