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Raised in Philly, Vegas-Runner actually made his first wager in the 5th grade. The day he was introduced to the point-spread, the love affair began - and before long, he realized what he was put here to do. Philadelphia has always been full of "wiseguys"...

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Bettors MUST Be Aware of Major League Baseball's "KEY" Numbers

by vegas-runner on 06/16/2008 11:10 AM

We have covered some of the options that are available to sports bettors for MLB...those included "Run-Line" and "5th Inn" wagers. Today, I want to cover a topic that I feel is extremely important, and being conscious of these factors  which we will discuss, will definately play a vital role in the overall success when wagering on MLB. I know that when it comes to football, even your most recreational bettors have learned that the numbers 3 & 7 are "key" numbers, and if looking to bet a total...the numbers 37 & 41 are "key". And although there are different schools of thought when it comes to basketball's "key" numbers...I have always tried to make myself aware, when the line is 5 or 6....

The reason that we refer to the numbers stated above as "key", is because of the fact that those are the numbers that games tend to fall on more than any other. So that means that more NFL games will end with the final score being determined by 3 points, and that is the exact same reason that I choose to be conscious of 5 & 6 in basketball....because more games will end with one team winning by those number of points, than any other. As a bettor, we will be able to gain an edge over the books whenever we can get +3.5, rather than +3, or by going Over 40.5, instead of 41...

Well, during my years as a runner, I was also made aware that when I was going to place certain bets...there are certain numbers that I also need to be aware of, and attempt to get on the best side of them whenever possible. Since MLB is a sport which is bet on the ML, rather than with a "handicapp"/points...the key numbers that I was informed about were soley on "Totals"...meaning that whenever we wagered on an MLB "total", and the number we were searching for was one of the "key" numbers...I made sure to search as much as I can to try and get the best of it...knowing that doing so will definately turn a lot of possible "pushes" into wins, and a lot of losses, into "pushes"....

And as a runner, I had to learn the hard way many times, just how vital it actually becomes to not take the worst of it when the "steam" is on one of these numbers. Because as I said in prior blog posts, my responsibilities included getting down all that I can for the "outfits" I was employed by, before I was allowed to make that same bet for myself...and strangley enough, I had met so many other runners who were moving "steam" also, that never really tried to comprehend this important factor and somehow always wondered why when the year was over, they found themselves making a far less profit than they could have and believe it or not...I am convinced that if they had just chosen to skip those wagers where they couldn't get the best of the "key" number, they would have ended up with a much more prosperous year of wagering...

The reason that I believe most didn't try and figure out what being on the best side of a "key" number actually meant, was because they were to lazy to put the work it involved into it. That may sound like I am criticizing them, but I am simply stating a fact...and what I mean by this is that it does require some work from the handicapper to try and figure out whether or not betting "Over" 8.5 (-140) should produce better or worse profit over time, than wagering "Over" 9 (-110)...*you will find that betting OVER 8.5 (-140) isn't more profitable than betting OVER 9 (-110)*..and as a serious handicapper and sports bettor, it becomes another task that has to be re-worked throughout the season, because these percentages will differ from year to year, as well as from month to month...because as today's handicappers have more access to information, what seperates the levels of success for each is definately how much work each is actually willing to do...considering of course, they actually know what work will help produce the most profit based on its influcence on the outcome of a sporting event...

Now that we know how important knowing these "key" numbers are, as well as many of the reasons why...we will move ahead to what those numbers actually are, and the price that bettors should be willing to pay to get on the "right side" of the "key" number...The most important numbers when betting MLB Totals is "7" & "9" , because more MLB games will end on these numbers more than any other :

7 = 10.6%.....9 = 10.6%

The reasons for this are pretty obvious...because when games are tied 3-3 or 4-4, more times than not, a single run will end the game...

After 7 and 9, the next most important numbers become "5 & 11" :

5 = 8.1%.....11 = 8.6%

So just being aware of those 4 numbers will cover almost 40% of ALL MLB games...

What this actually means is that 54.9% of ALL MLB games will end up with 9 or more runs scored....while 55.7% will end up with 9 or less runs scored...so you can see just how vital it becomes to get on the right side of the number 9...so now,  as handicappers we are aware of what these "key" numbers are...but that alone is not enough, because as sports bettors, we need to be aware of what price we should be willing to lay, in order to try and get on the right side of these numbers...and since "9" is by far the most important, and ultimately the one we most see offered, I will use it to further explain exactly what I mean...and will do so, by explaining why I stated above that betting Over 8.5 (-140) will not produce more profit, than going Over 9 (-110)...

If you were to bet Over 9 runs...you will WIN 44.5% of your bets...you will LOSE 44.5% of your bets...and you will PUSH 11% of your bets...so its not rocket science to realize that since there is a 50% chance of winning and losing, the vig on the line of 9, should be -110 either way...

If instead of betting Over 9 runs, you were to bet Over 8.5...you will WIN 55.5% of your bets....and you will LOSE 44.5% of your bets...so based on those percentages, the "True" odds on going Over 8.5, instead of 9 is -135...that is what the "true" vig should actually be...and the reason for this is because going OVER 9 (-110) is EQUAL to going OVER 8.5 (-135)...

It becomes very obvious why it is so important for a sports bettor to be aware of these numbers...and like I said above...the ability of the handicapper to implement these findings into the way they form their bets, will ultimately play a vital role on their success...and now that I broke down the number 9...I will list below the probabilities of some of the other numbers/totals so you are also able to figure out what price you should be willing to lay, in order to get on the "right" side of a particular total...(please keep in mind that this is an overall account of the past 5 seasons, and your accuracy in breaking it down into year/month will further improve your chance of getting "The Best of It")...

3 = 5.2%....4 = 4.0%....6 = 6.5%

8 = 7.6%....10 = 6.2%....12 = 5.3%....13 = 6.3%

These, along with the numbers covered earlier, go to cover a little over 80% of ALL MLB Games...I was fortunate like I have said 1,000s of times...that I got an opportunity to not only bet for, but more importantly, ask questions and work with guys whose ability to not only comprehend, but also implement into their daily wagering in the sports market...and over all those years, I was able to see first hand all of the posters hanging on the office walls with these type of stats, which surrounded the guys who were responsible for finding the "steam"...which ultimately went a long way towards making me realize the type of commitment it really took to win, betting on sports...and I promise you, that if you are willing to put that work in, and go beyond what the average bettor is willing to put in, including the oddsmakers...there will be no sport/number/book that you won't be able to beat over time...but like anything else in life...success will only come to those willing to work the hardest because you would be surprised at the amount of bettors willing to wager obscene amounts of money, after simply looking at the match-up for a limited amount of time...like while reading the paper or looking on the internet for a quick summary break-down of the game....when deep inside, we are all aware of just how much more it actually takes....best of luck, Vegas-Runner...

I was interested to know, how many of you really take into account what the number is...meaning that if you like the Over in a game...will you try and see if there actually is value in going Over 7.5 (-130) or if you would prefer to keep shopping to find Over 8 (+105) ??...or do you really look at those factors more with football since that is the sport which originally taught us all that there are "Key" Numbers...

25 Comments:

 

posted by Matty O'Shea on 06/16/2008 4:27 PM

Very good info Ace - I am hoping I can get a push on 9 in this Phillies-Red Sox game right now.

 

posted by MarkO on 06/16/2008 5:00 PM

Super valuable info and worthwhile read!!!

 

posted by Greg Shaker on 06/16/2008 5:14 PM

Nice Thoughts VR. I always bets totals to the number that I will lose and so getting 9 is almost just as important as getting 9.5 when playing UNDER. But paying the extra price is just not worth it unless you can still get a good number. Therefore, 8.5 at -110 is much better than 9 at -135. It has been my experience that 9 Run Numbers are more likely to go UNDER than 9.5, as once the books decide that a 9.5 Number is worthy, it is, more times than not.

 

posted by GoodFella on 06/16/2008 5:25 PM

Great stuff again VR, thanks.

 

posted by MarkO on 06/16/2008 6:42 PM

VR...I know you work your arse off but have to ask this question...very pertinent I think.

If youre dealing with a local using 20 cent total lines (ie-Every total bet is riski of 120), how do you view the numbers under that circumstance?  Many here use a local--I do, as well as a offshore where its better, but more people here have locals than lead on.  Curious.  Dont mean to steal your time, just think you have a valuable opinion on the question.

 

posted by Johnny Detroit on 06/16/2008 8:23 PM

As always, amazing stuff.

 

posted by Greg Shaker on 06/16/2008 9:22 PM

Yes JD, Great Topic, and chocked full of great info..

 

posted by vegas-runner on 06/17/2008 9:07 AM

Thanks Guys, and that is why I love this place and am so grateful to be here...its an opportunity to finally get a chance to share all the things that I have been able to pick up through the years which I have never had a chance prior to discuss with anyone...and on top of it, I get a chance to also learn so much from all of you because so many times I have come across something that was written by someone here at Pregame that I never really considered and its advanced my own level of thinking and reasoning in a big way over these last 8 months...so I really would like to thank you for that...VR

MarkO...it sucks to think that there are still so many locals who are taking advantage of players during the MLB season with their 20cent lines...trust me, I remember a day when that was what everyone was using...and even funnier, when I was taking book in high school, I used a 20cent vig on everything and ties lost...and nobody ever complained because they didn't know any better, and it wasn't until years later that I was able to comprehend the kind of edge that I had over my players...

So getting back to your question, you seem like a very sharp guy and I urge you to try and find yourself some more outs...now I know that a win is a win, and if the game wins, does it really matter what number you had to lay...but truth is, it does, almost as much as what you had to lay when you lose...and the reason for that is because when you do win, and you aren't getting every penny you earned...it will really have an major influence on your bottom line over time, and just adding up all those 10cents here and there that were missed...could have ended up covering a few loses completely, and as time goes on it continues to pile up...

I always say this and I will contine to say this..."Its a Numbers Game"...and nothing else...so to beat it, you have to try and get the very best number for all of your bets...and I do mean all of them...

It is one of the most overlooked factors that bettors consider...and although we are all conscious of it, how many of us actually make it our #1 priority...because it really should be...

For myself, I was lucky to have spent so many years moving "steam" that searching for the VERY best number became automatic...and the reason for this is because when an order came over the radio, my only responsibility was to find the number that they asked for...meaning that if they told me OVER 9.5 -120...that was as high as I was allowed to go...if I even tried to turn in a ticket at -122, I would have to eat it because their entire system was based on finding value and unloading on it when they do...and it was so methodical and planned out to the penny, exactly where the value ends...

So for so many guys who are using locals who only have a 20cent line, who have no other options...I think that they can still do extremely well and it shouldn't be the difference between profit and loss if you are capable of producing more winners than losers...and you just have to live with the fact that most of the times, you just won't be getting everything that you earned...and you need to be much more conservative because of the fact you are forced to need a higher win% on those bets...and as long as you are conscious of that, you can still use them and do well...thanks again fellas and best of luck, VR...

 

posted by ad aware se on 06/22/2008 4:09 AM

Pingback from  ad aware se

 

posted by Mort on 06/23/2008 4:54 AM

Do you know how often these over/under numbers hit when that number is the line?  In other words, let's say the line is over/under 9, how often does it hit 9?

It seems to me that logically the percentages would increase.  Do you have any data for that?

 

posted by vegas-runner on 06/23/2008 9:26 AM

Mort, that is a good question and one I think JD would probably know off the top of his head because he does so much scalping and middling...I know he had the figures for basketball which he had posted...

I will say this, for myself I am not that concerned with those numbers because as a handicapper, my success depends on my ability to make an even stronger number than the oddsmakers...so if they put up a 9, as a capper my concern is whether or not that is correct...but I would imagine that since 9 is the most "key" total, it would probably fall on it the most...best of luck and thanks for contributing, VR

 

posted by Mort on 06/23/2008 11:59 AM

Vegas Runner, if by JD you mean Johnny Detroit, I have already asked him and he answered me by advising me to ask you.

 

posted by vegas-runner on 06/23/2008 12:42 PM

Mort, I just laughed out loud when I read that....since he don't have the answer, I will try to pass that question along to someone I think may and see what I can do because now you have me itching to know those figures..thanks again, VR

 

posted by Mort on 06/24/2008 2:33 AM

I look forward to what you find out.  My guess is the percentages will go up.

 

posted by vegas-runner on 04/08/2009 8:35 AM

Here's another MLB Blog Post from L/Yr that I think everyone should take a look at and be conscious of when betting Totals...Best of Luck, VR

 

posted by harpco on 04/08/2009 11:13 AM

A nice little REFRESHER COURSE in april .

thanks for taking the time to post

thanks , ace

grind away thru the summer months

g.l.

best regards ,

boston bettor

 

posted by Marco D'Angelo on 04/08/2009 12:08 PM

The information that Vegas Runner shares for Free is more than most Cappers even know...Great Stuff VR

 

posted by RJ_Bell on 04/08/2009 1:26 PM

You can follow Vegas Runner move by move at http://Twitter.com/VegasRunner

 

posted by Prospectus on 04/08/2009 1:40 PM

VR in an earlier post before the start of the NCAA Tourney you referenced your expeience where syndicates will bet a game a certain way to create steam and a number they are really looking to bet and then you see the line cycle back. as they make there real bet I have seen a lot of that pattern over the years when there is an actual shift. Example VRs group wants to make a major play on a game at over 8 1/2 they send the action out to knock it off of 9 then kill it at 8 1/2 ,following MLB total moves, is that what is going on? as usual remarkable information.

Thanks

Prospectus

 

posted by vegas-runner on 04/08/2009 2:14 PM

Prospectus...Thank You, Glad you enjoy it and are able to use the info...

To answer your question...it seems you are extremely perceptive...Because RIGHT NOW...that is exactly what is happening in MLB...

Sportsbooks are so afraid that the Wiseguy's Numbers are stronger than the Oddsmakers at this time...And the Wiseguys know that because of this...they can manipulate the market much easier than they will be able to as the season progresses and the confidence of the books increases...

So what many of the well known Syndicates are currently doing...is sending out a "Buy-Order" on the UNDER, but not for any serious cash...Just enough to get the books moving, and the public to follow the move...

Then, as game-time approaches...a Huge "Buy-Order" will go out...and you will see the Total get erratic because the books are unsure what to do...

Keep an eye on the way these Lines will move between 6:45 & 7:30...and you will be able to pick off a lot of their earlier manipulations...And it won't even take too much effort as long as you checked the initial "Big" Move in the morning...

Now this will not go on for too long...because as the Wiseguys gather some Data...then they can approach it more on the up and up...But right now, they will look to take every edge they can fine...which the sportsbooks are willing to give them...

Thanks again, VR

 

posted by Prospectus on 04/08/2009 4:13 PM

Perfect VR, thanks, I began reading your stuff last fall, I thought I new a little something about line moves but I have learned more from you than I ever new before by a good margin . You have helped my game. significantly. Your work ethic is great and I wish you continued success.

Condolences on your loss this week.

Sincerely

Prospectus

 

posted by playboy600000 on 04/26/2009 1:20 AM

great job guy so sunday nl 8 1/2 under  aml 9oer

 

posted by Straguzzi on 06/08/2009 7:14 PM

I hereby recognize this post for a "Gold Star" per the Pregame Constitution's goal of informing and entertaining our community.

Vegas Runner - for posting essential handicapping theory that help bettors win.

You've just earned an entry into our next Most Valuable Poster Drawing for a chance at $1000 in cash! There's no limit to the number of entries you can earn, so keep up the good work!

Posts that contribute the most include:

1) Quality analysis with picks

2)More than just "good luck" when responding to other's picks, but rather constructive insight into why you like or don't like the picks

3)Regular (ideally daily) threads that cover a certain subject - like a weather report thread for baseball, or a bullpen fatigue report, or SportsbookSpy.com analysis of the betting percentages, any information that will help others handicap.

4) Any projects which require collaboration between posters - we are much sharper when working together

5)Replies pointing out the highest quality posts from others. If you read something you think is very helpful, draw attention to it, and say thanks by replying.

6) Replies which help along the conversation by asking a question, or point out another angle to consider

Remember, all you have to do to nominate a post is simply SEND AN EMAIL to forums@pregame.com whenever you see a post you believe deserves a gold star.

 

posted by Rob Crowne on 06/08/2009 9:01 PM

Fantastic post and information VR.  On question.  You wrote that 54.9% of all games will 9 or more and 55.7% of games will land on 9 or less.  I don't follow how you arrived at those percentages.  Is it typo?  It would seem that if the 9 appears 10.6% then 44.7% of all games will end under 9 runs and 44.7% of all games will end over 9 runs (you used 44.5% later because you rounded up to 11%).  If that is the case then the number of games ending with 9 or less points must be 44.7 + 10.6 = 55.3% and the number of games ending on 9 or more would also be 55.3%.  Is there some reason that the under is more likely to come in than the over at a total of 9?

 

posted by Rob Crowne on 06/08/2009 9:22 PM

Answer to Mort's question about whether the percentage of pushes on 11 increases when the line is at 11.

I'm going to change the question a bit to fit my research.  I will assume you want to know whether the 11 will push more often when the line is between 10.5 and 11.5.  

The answer is yes.  The reason that the 11 only appears 8.6% of the time is that fewer games are high scoring than are mid-range in scoring (7-9 runs).   When the line is set at  10.5 to 11.5 it is more likely that the game will be high scroring and therefore the push percentage on the 11 goes up closer to the 10.6% found for the 7 & 10.  My research came up with 10.1% over 5 years of games.  You may find different percentages over more or fewer years of sample.

The 9 and 7 decrease in percentage when the line is high.  

At lines from 7- 8.5 the number 7 will push a slightly higher 11% and at 8.5 to 9.5 my numbers show the #9 will push 11.6% of the time.  It is the push percentages that are most important when you are deciding to bet a middle or try to side any of these numbers.  Otherwise, it is sufficient to know that the 7, 9. and 11 are key numbers and that the half run on or off those numbers are equal to approximately 35 -40 points.  The numbers in VR's article are sufficiently accurate for every purpose except middles, even when the line is set at those numbers.  Since you will be using key number theory only when the line is set within 1/2 point of that number, simply use VR's figures for the 7 & 9 and apply them to the 11 when the line is between 10.5 and 11.5.  

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