The King Maker (see all posts from)

I have been there and bought the T Shirt my friend.  In fact bought the T Shirt Factory as some point in my 17 career.

You will gain more respect in this business King Maker by telling the truth and admitting losses and slumps, and ANY sports bettor and especially pro handicapper like myself understand that this happens.  

Slowing it down and backing it off is a proper thing to do in order to reset your approach somewhat to ajust to what was failing you.  

Placing emphasis in your handicapping and or power ratings in football on items like umps or refs has some validity, but in MLB I do not, if rarely  at all place too much of anything on an ump, other than how we calls balls and strikes (his allowed hitting area for strikes)...and how and what stuff each starter has and how he likes to throw at batters...sometimes you gain a small edge.....it is the players that detrmine the outcome in 95% of the games.  

Good luck.

I dont think I have EVER seen somebody so shifty with record as you are. YOU ARE 0-3-1 ON 30 DAY PACKAGE PLAYS. Im sure you figured nobody would track it, but I have and I am going to call you out every time that you continuously post shifty records. The truth is he is 0-3-1 (-5.50 units)

Great example of how you can totally trust the posted records at Pregame.com - if an innocent mistake is made, it is quickly caught and corrected.

Apathy seems to believe that Kingmaker takes his "breaks" during bad streaks in order to create a new category of picks after he resumes (specifically, "post-break" picks).

I do not believe that, and here the main reason . . . KM would make more money selling his picks during a bad streak (cause many of his fans still buy during those times) than any extra money he'll make from having a post-break win streak to tout. KM takes breaks because he is truly re-thinking his capping approach.

I disagree with Kingmaker in regards to a "bashing" culture . . . in fact, it is the opposite: a place where everyone feels safe to point out what they see as the truth. That is very healthy. Like it is healthy for me to disagree sometimes too. I wish Apathy would be a little less harsh sometimes, but I love how much trust in grown when we all know that so many others are policing the truth.

just a second here fido, kevin says 0-2-1, u say 0-3-1. fine. but shifty? my ass. and to get on ur bullhorn and shout out  "iam sure you figured nobody would track it" is an accusation of foul play that  has the equivolent of 'trying to stretch a nats ass over a doorknob' not  much subtance to it.  not even kelso sturgeon would try to fudge up a short record like that.

and in your last staement u state to a fact that kevin 'continuously post shiffty records.' are u referring to this present record of 0-3-1 as being a continuous posting of fraudulent records? or r u referring to prior postings of fraudulent records that go beyond this current 0-3-1 record? cause if thats the case then i'd sure like to see the facts/proof    

GEEZ...BIG DEAL OVER ONE "L"??? SIMMER BRO

Kevin, I for one, would like to say "THANK YOU"......for stopping the plays.  Had you continued putting out plays during the time game results were not matching expected game results and it seemed like the few we saw were quite a bit off, and we were at the end of the 30-day package sitting at 13-17, under 50% and out of pocket the cost of the subscription, plus the losses, yeah.....I can't imagine there'd be many happy customers.

And we'd be sitting here evaluating you on work that wasn't your best and that wouldn't be fair to you either. Now, hopefully the adjustments are in place and positive results will follow. Thx.

Kev I'll been around for couple years now and sorry you are a shifty person, When you were KILLING NCAA basketball 2 years ago, I went searching in my records and seen you missed a game we won on your record SORRY YOU SHIFTY DUDE and I think pregame needs to launch a CSI on you!!! Am calling GRISSOM  MYSELF because RJ is on this PREGAME SHIFTINESS am sure. JUST REMEMBER KM YOUR BEING WATCHED I GOT MY CSI STARTER KIT OUT NOW!!!  

Kingmaker should feel great so many are coming to his defense - it's a great sign of how much he as contributed over the years.

Great Stuff KING. Just one more reason why you are my favorite Pregame Pro, including myself. I am seeing a counselor about that though, and working my way through it. I have to go take a pill now.

hey washcars, everybody knows that grissom is gone and lawernce fishburn is in u shifty guy u

Freeneasy was bringing in him out of retirement to handle this VERY IMPORTANT CASE OF KM SHIFTNESS!!!!

awwww i see. the pieces are all beginning to fall in place now

Nice first inning winner!

To RJ--

Everybody else here appears to have answered you by simply giving you the silent treatment.  I will not.  You said everyone should feel safe to disagree and everyone should feel safe to speak what they believe to be truth.  I disagree with you, and what follows is the truth as I see it.  We'll see whether I am safe in saying it, or whether this is, indeed, a bashing culture here at Pregame..

With an eye over my shoulder for the Pregame Truth Police, let me say:

No.  I, for one, do not feel very safe having a lying, assault-prone, nitpicking policeman on the job waiting to make a false arrest or to assault citizenry at random, with or without cause.  I also don't feel very safe in a society in which the policeman, whether right or wrong, is permitted to be the prosecutor, the judge and the jury, all without presenting any evidence, and in some instances clearly lying.  That is not just a "bashing cultrue," it is a police state, and no one is safe in it.  As history proves, not even the leader of a police state has ever been safe.  Not even you, as you may realize when you call me.  

Apathy is not "policing the truth."  Ralph Nader "policed the  truth" with regard to the automakers.  Apathy is no Ralph Nader.  

The difference between Apathy and Ralph Nader is:

(A) Ralph Nader did not make up lies for the sole purpose of attacking whoever he chose to put on his enemies list,

(B) Ralph Nader came forward with actual evidence,

(C) Ralph Nader presented that evidence and did not attempt to become the policeman, the judge, the jury and the executioner all rolled into one,

(D) Ralph Nader never engages in baseless personal attacks such as "I don't think I have EVER seen somebody so shifty,"

(E) Raph Nader did not nitpick nonsense, and

(F) Ralph Nader did not ignore serious violations at the companies owned by his friends, while slamming, without basis, the competition.    

Apathy's words in this thread alone indicate:  

(1) that he is engaged in a random assault based on nitpicking.  

(2) that he engages in exaggerated personal attacks.  

(3) that he presented no evidence of a basis for his apparently false personal attack,

All of the above three observations were also pointed out by others in this thread, and I want to give them props for a job well done.

In addition, unlike Ralph Nader, Apathy also bases his attacks on lies.  That is not a mere bashing statement from me.  It is a provable statement of fact.  Although one can assume Apathy's statement to the effect that King Maker is  "continuously shifty" is a lie, Apathy's lie is not immediately and easily provable in that regard, and it must be taken on faith that Apathy lied.  I do, however, have easily and immediately provable evidence that Apathy attacks with lies.  I will, on request, be happy to post that evidence here.

I also have substantial evidence that while nitpicking one game mistake here, Apathy has ignored and even praised glaringly false records and false advertising by his friends at Pregame.  Those false records and statements  have amount to thousands of dollars.  

Here in New York, two policemen were recently convicted of intentionally failing to arrest a criminal enterprise run by their friends, while arresting and assaulting anyone, legitimate or illegitimate, who represented any kind of threat or resistance to that criminal enterprise.  No, RJ, I do not feel safe in a world where such police are permitted to run the streets.  

Again, there is substantial evidence of the scams of Apathy's friends, and there is substantial evidence that Apathy has not only ignored those misrepresentations,  but has actively supported those false records, while slamming the competition with baseless bashings.  If anyone wants the evidence, I will be presenting it to RJ first, since the probable motive for the kind of action I am speaking of  threatens RJ's business.  If RJ's thereafter consents,  I will be glad to present all the evidence here on request, or because it is lenghty, I may present in a separate blog article..

So now that I have disagreed with you, RJ, and stated what I believe to be true about your newly appointed Pregame Truth Police, together with evidence and an offer of evidence, let's see how "safe" I really am, or if Pregame is, indeed a bashing culture where no one can feel safe.  

Is that the siren of the Truth Police I hear?      

There is something to be said about pulling back on selections during a losing streak.  I really don't believe in sticking with a strategy that hasn't worked and continue to fire away on selections.  I think one of the marks of a truly good handicapper is to minimize the selections and unit size when going through a rough streak and maximizing selections and unit size when going through a winning streak.  Using this strategy a bettor/handicapper could basically have a 50% winning rate and still potentially make very good money.  Even if KM's critics have to give him credit for pulling back when his strategy wasn't working.  I think RJ is right, he would have made much more money if he would have continued to release selections because he could have twisted around stats in a way to continue to attract customers.

Did RJ respond to Rob Crowne?

Have no idea what Rob is talking about here. I'm guessing it is a misunderstanding. Have a call scheduled with him for today. Pregame.com has zero tolerance for anything but 100% honesty from our Pro Bettors. I'll keep the community updated.

Before i start, on topic, I am very appreciative of KM's commentary and research into umpires.  I use umpires myself and found his information very enlightening.

Evan I also agree with you.  Pulling back if you think you can't explain certain results is always wise.  That goes for teams as well as a particular sport.  I pulled on BC in baskets one season because I couldn't explain the results.  In that case I was very glad because it came out later they were fixing the games.

Now on to may last post.  I have just finished a very long two hour talk with RJ.  It is impressive that he was sufficiently concerned with this to spend that amount of time.  I disclosed everything about the misrepresentation of records.  

I thought it was clear from the prior post, but I have reread it and it may not be clear.  I was not talking about the paid handicappers.  I was talking about the free bloggers and free posters.  

RJ has also asked me to let you know that I was talking about the racing blogs.  There is, in fact, a misrepresentation of records that has gone on in those blogs, and I will be discussing it fully in my own blog where I have more space.  I may even discuss it in the series I already have going about tricks and traps.  

I want to make it clear that at no point did I believe, or do I believe that RJ or Marco had any knowledge of what was going on.  That's why I said in my first post, that I would be laying it out to RJ on the phone.  

These misrepresentations are very sophisticated, which is why they can be done in plain sight.  After very long conversations RJ and I agred that , alhought Apathy participated in those threads, and although he said nothing, the reason he said nothing could very well be that he did not recognize what is golng on.  I have had twice Apathy's age in experience, and what is obvious to me may very likely not be obvious to someone who is only in their early 20's ( his age and experience are facts I did not know before) Further it appears that Apathy is not an experienced horse person, and may not have recognized the situation for that reason.  Thus, it was wrong on my part to attribute evil intent to his having said nothing.. On that basis, as a responsible adult, I believe that no matter what my feelings may be otherwise about Apathy, that it is the proper to apologize for assuming that would definitely have seen what I saw.    I n fact, even I, ,  had to sit down and work out the results race by race to figure some of it out.  The ensuing article will probably be very revealing on the subject of how you can be fooled.  And of course, if you can be foole, why can't Apathy be fooled? So again my apologies.

RJ left it up to me whether to go into the threads involved and question what is going on.  I have decided not to do that.  I believe that once the magic tricks are exposed everyone will be able to recognize it for themselves, and prsumably shining a light on it will cause the perpetrators to do things differently.  Since there are no paid handicappers involved, there is probably no action that needs to be taken against anyone.

That's it.  Since I have RJ's permission, I will write about in general in either a separate blog article or in my series about cons and scams.  And I thank RJ for the time he devoted to the situation.  

I observed Kevin for a few years now and his credibility is beyond reproach in my own personal view.

Well first Crown drives out Prospectus and now he wants to drive out Apathy? I have never read a Crown post all the way through because it has nothing of interest.  

Apathy picks on everyone Crown...if your a pro ACT LIKE ONE

BKW

Are you really an Esq?  Any particular area?

Anyway, my posts are not for everyone.  I have never seen a post that was of interest to everybody.  If they don't interest you, I am certainly glad to hear that you don't read them all the way through.  If you hadn't said that, and you merely said they weren't of interest, I would have suggested exactly that.     Some people are very interested in my articles.  Others are not.  Such is life. You can't please everybody.  

Most posts, if the title doesn't interest me, I don't read them at all.  If the title is good but the post doesn't interest me, I stop reading too.  We probably have a lot in common.

I wasn't aware that Apathy picks on "everyone." That's an interesting forum opinion. Thanks for the info.  Is picking on everybody a good thing? A popular thing? Something that qualifies as "acting like a pro?"  

I bet like a "Pro," and I handicap like a "Pro" and I try to act like an adult and like a decent person.  I qualify as a "Pro" in several areas, by training, degrees and experience.  I have worked and practiced as Pro in several categories including financial, legal, writing, sports handicapping, and card playing.  .  

I must say, that after all that experience as a "Pro,"  despite the fact that each area has its "on the job" protocols, I don't know of any particular way that a "Pro" is supposed to act other than like a decent, mature human being.  That means, in part,  I don't go around "picking on everyone,"  I don't claim to be perfect, I don't lie, I don't steal, but I must admit that when I was doing a lot of BJ card counting some casinos did claim that I was cheating back in the day.  It also means that if I make a mistake that might hurt someone else, I apologize no matter what my opinion of that person might be otherwise.  

If there is something in all of  that which is antithetical to "acting like pro" I, personally don't know what it is.  Although I do understand that acting like a Pro lawyer, might sometimes include picking on people.  But it might also include, defending people from being picked on.  Still that is only "on the job" so to speak.

Anyway, by now you have probably lost interest and stopped reading, so I wish you a goodnight.

I actually try to find the most boring posts on the forum and make sure to read those the whole way through.  And I occasionally act immature, which I guess pros don't do, so I apologize in advance to everyone!!!  Oh, and I also lash out without thinking occasionally as well.  This discussion is kinda like a Seinfeld episode, pretty much about nothing, haha.

To turn this discussion away from nothing, I knew a hooker once who called herself a "pro."  She was definitely something

I happen to like Seinfeld.  Badly written, but well acted.  Unlike Sex in the City, which is badly acted but well written.  Except the Sex in the City Movie which was both badly written and badly acted.

Yeah, lost interest at "Are you really an ESQ?"

At this point I would like to be credited my $299.00 back to my account for future putchases. It;s obvious this is going nowhere. Please speak to marco about crediting me back my entire purchase. This is ridiculous. It's like buying a new car and after purchasing it the dealer tells you you can't drive it for 3 months, but you still have to pay for it. PLEASE REFUNE RIGHT AWAY. TIRED OF WAITING FOR PICKS.

I bought your package and want a refund or credit if you are only going to put plays out to complete a package.  Thats not what I signed up for and this will destroy your business and name.  This would make it seem you dont care if package wins or loses just put out the plays and collect the clients money.  

I could care less if it takes you all season to put out the 30 best plays but I certainly do NOT want any play just to satisfy a package requirement.

Keep plugging away and only release the best!

im trying to figure out why my reply was deleted from this thread. . .

Lets start the streak!

First off, I think we should be really glad that we have paid handicappers on this site that don't just sell picks to get in as much money as they can day in day out.

I do think though there's improvement to be made when people wanting to buy a package, in terms of what you can expect from it.

I think (unfortunately) alot of people don't really know the handicapper and their betting style before investing their money. You could blame the one buying the package for not doing their homework, but I think there could be done more in that department.

Just an example: anyone buying a Vegas-Runner package could be made aware that he has a fairly large bankroll to work with cause of the high-volume betting style VR follows.

i bought the 30 day package the other day and i just logged into the memebers page and can see the link to buy the play but i dont see the play listed.   this site and customer service really sucks.  i have to go out for the day and play cards at wsop and cant get your play, ill call cs now but it will be a confusing call.  this is just FYI, maybe you should use another site for your selections, something with better cs and ease of memebers logging in and getting picks.  

gl today

KIng...Best of Luck Brother...I got your message and just wanted to let you know that I don't believe that I have anything planned during that time...I'm going away for a few days soon just to get away from Vegas, like I do pretty much each year...But, I think we scheduled it for sooner than mid-July...Kick some ass, VR

I have followed Kevin for a while, and I agree with  Mschmidt  that he has always first and foremost  had his clients welfare in mind. He does not put out plays unless he believes they are correct. Anyone who knows him , knows that. I guess maybe some ppl would prefer he posted plays daily even though he has no confidence.  But of course, when they lose their ass, he will be labeled a lousy handicapper. Maybe he should have posted them with a note saying he is not very confident in the play. Just to get the 30 day package done.

I will hang myself if Colorado puts up runs and this game goes over. . .

WAHOO WINNER... saved my day ... almost